Speaker 1: 0:00

All right, hi, ashley. It's really exciting because you and I don't know each other, but I feel like we know each other just from that TikTok relationship, so I appreciate you doing this with me. I just want to let people know a little bit about you. You live in South Carolina, you were director of nursing and program administrator. You did nurse education. You have over 12 years experience and you have an expertise in staff leadership and program creation. I was following you the time that you made this big leap. You retired from those prestigious expositions and you've started focusing on leadership, training and mentorship. So tell me a little bit about that. What inspired you to make that jump.

Speaker 2: 0:41

So I recently had my fourth child, which is just a total carpal. Having four and in anything in healthcare, especially the hospital, you are on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week and I really thought long and hard about it. I had to just shift my focus a little bit and make my family more a priority. But I didn't want to leave that leadership aspect behind, because I know that's what I'm called to do and I know there's a way to do both Want to reach and help develop leaders on a bigger audience.

Speaker 2: 1:11

I truly feel with all my experience, and then I'm continuing to train and develop. I really think it could just be an impact.

Speaker 1: 1:19

like yourself, so good and you're brave, by the way it's brave, well, you're brave to have four kids. So I'm not going to say you're brave to have four kids and you're brave to make a jump because that's a secure job, it's a secure paycheck. It's a big deal to follow a passion that way. When you first decided to go into nursing, what made you excited about that?

Speaker 2: 1:41

My main passion was, and this has always been, just what I live by. It's just to be that positive influence and help people. It's just so fascinating to me.

Speaker 1: 1:49

I didn't plan on asking you that question, but I had a feeling that was going to be your answer, because I think when we're called to leadership and I loved that you used that word it's always been that calling is there and it shows up in different ways and we use our leadership skills different in how we're helping people, but we're always helping people.

Speaker 2: 2:07

I completely agree with that. I played sports all my life and I always was a leader on a team in some way, and from my high school days I just loved being that encourager and that motivator, as I found it in nursing and in life.

Speaker 1: 2:20

It's just been great and I'm sure you apply all of those same things as a mom, so it's amazing how those skills are just part of who you are. Correct For you to transition, like just from the nursing aspect more into the leadership that probably felt natural for you.

Speaker 2: 2:35

Yes, when I was in a role outside of the hospital, there was an opportunity just a short moment for me to be in a manager role, which I embraced. And then I moved back into the hospital setting and I've had the same boss in my leadership career and she was just so supportive. So as she moved up, she was taking me under her wing and saying come on, we can do this together. We can do this. So after I had my second baby, when I came back from maternity leave, I became a middle manager and I just fell in love with it and I just loved just learning people and they were my peers. So I worked alongside them and then I had that switch and I became their leader. But it wasn't a bad transition. They were just so supportive every single day.

Speaker 1: 3:19

I think your experience is how it should go and unfortunately, I don't think it always goes like that. It doesn't go like that often.

Speaker 2: 3:26

I agree. I think a lot of people become in that role either because they have the most experience or they've been there the longest, or they're successful at their job, which is great, but that whole leadership and people skills aspect just isn't there, and a lot of people, I think, give it a try because they want to see how it goes and it just doesn't work out.

Speaker 1: 3:47

You said the perfect thing and I understand why people promote somebody who's had a lot of experience and they're really good at their job. I get that. But they are not looking at the people element. If they don't have the people skills, it does not matter how good they are at their job, it doesn't matter how many years they've had in that position, how successful they were. Their role as a leader will not succeed. Have to have people skills. It's different than doing the job. It's managing other people doing the job and empowering them to do the job. That is very, very different. It sounds like you did have very supportive boss and then your team was supportive of you. That's the ideal situation. I know it's full of challenges too. I'm not saying it was easy every day. That's the ideal situation and I just don't see that a lot. Helping people with these people skills makes all the difference. There's a common thought out there that people believe you either have people skills or you don't. What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2: 4:45

I think if you have the true passion to have that positive influence, you can learn those people skills. Have to really want to make a difference. You just have to have that in your core and I truly feel you can learn how to deal with people, but dealing with people's heart.

Speaker 2: 5:00

There's so many personalities, there's so many situations and it takes a lot of practice and just Experienced, somewhat comfortable, I mean, even after ten years some of the conversations I had, this, so not a hundred percent comfortable, but I think if you just have that passion you can learn those type of skills.

Speaker 1: 5:19

I agree with you and I think people don't often agree with us on that. Yes, I think that natural pull to it and that natural wanting to help, that could be in our DNA and that's part of us. If we say you know what I want to be the best manager leader I can be, then we can choose to explore what that means. It's a, it's a choice and it's a decision, and I don't think enough managers and leaders make that decision. I think they're often thrown into those positions for the reasons we talked about and then they're just running from day one and they're never Taking that time to really reflect and explore the changes that they need to make. So that's where people like you and I come in and it's exciting helping people develop those skills. If you had to just off the top of your head name some qualities that you believe are like Essential for a good leader or manager, what comes to mind for you?

Speaker 2: 6:10

My main thing is being trusting that trust. I talk about it all the time, but it is so important, but there's so many things that go in either. Trusting your leader, or your leader trusting their team. Think that is so big and they have to be Compassionate. Of course they have to have that compassionate and now, more and more, this day and age, they have to be flexible.

Speaker 1: 6:34

Have to be flexible.

Speaker 2: 6:36

They have to understand that we're all human beings and we have life happens. You can't be so rigid and have those expectations because it just it doesn't work out.

Speaker 1: 6:47

Yeah, very, very good the trust. For me it's a number one piece that has to be built. If we build trust with our people, then when we ask them to do something or we're suggesting that they try something new, there is an instant resistance. There might be some fear right now, but there isn't resistance or pushback because they trust you, correct, we're not leading them to fail.

Speaker 2: 7:12

Correct, yeah, and they know that you're gonna support them and they know that you know You're gonna be with them by their side and and I think a lot of leaders don't understand that trust takes time.

Speaker 2: 7:22

It's not overnight. I remember it took me almost one year when I became that middle manager For that, for me to really feel that my team was on board and that they and I were on the same page, trying to accomplish the same things. And it was hard work. Yeah, weren't like it was a great transition, but it still took some time and it was me being out there with them and showing that, guess, I feel you, I'm gonna help you, I'm gonna get the help, you get the work done and support you. That's how that trust, you know, evolves over time.

Speaker 1: 7:56

Wow, but it's so big and it's so important and so big yeah, and what I found just interesting about what you just said is that it was a good transition and it still took a year. Yes, so we imagine a manager being thrown into an Environment or work culture that is hostile or lots of conflict. How do you build that trust like that's right Rightening? It's really difficult.

Speaker 2: 8:21

It takes a lot of patience and just consistency and you you have to have a plan. Whether it's hostile or not, you have to have a really, a really good plan on what type of leader you want to be, what is your current environment and atmosphere and what are the first couple steps you're gonna do to try and change that and make that for the better. And and I know you will Get that resistance even more so every single day. But you just have to understand that you're doing this for the better and just keep pushing through and eventually you will break through. But it's also to just learning your people and if those are truly Resistant and then they just can't get past it, that's a different avenue than those who truly want to be there and want to do the right thing. They just need some coaching to get there.

Speaker 1: 9:12

Mm-hmm and often the people who want to do better, right, grow to get along with everybody. They get lost in that conflict. So we have to stay consistent as leaders and we need to be the one saying this is okay and this is not okay, right, and put those standards into place and those values at place and have everybody working towards that, because then the people who have the right motive and the people who want to do better, they're gonna start to rise up. Yes, they'll feel like, okay, I can now use my voice, I mean, and try something and I'm not gonna get harassed. Bullied at work it's scary and it goes both ways. When you have a manager being bullied by staff, that's still a management ownership issue, and I get a lot of pushback when I say that. But somehow we are allowing this correct as the owners, as Administrators, as the management team. So if a manager is being bullied and that is continuing, then that manager is not being supported by whoever's above them. I agree, that's just how it is. So it's an organizational issue, it is.

Speaker 2: 10:22

And there's no true focus on that, or you know the processes or policies in place to squash that as soon as it happens. Exactly yes.

Speaker 1: 10:30

And that's why, when you become a manager in that kind of environment, you have to be that person with so much passion, yes, for change, yes, and the ability to do the right thing when it's hard and a lot of.

Speaker 2: 10:44

from my experience. A lot of managers fear, if they have those hard conversations or really address that conflict, that their employees are just going to leave. And they might. But you don't want those negative people who bring down your team. And I see that all the time. That fear is there. Well, I'd rather have someone who's maybe not on board than no one at all. But they hear it. But I don't think they fully understand that one person can bring it down and they have to address that quickly because it's just a spiral. It just continues to happen.

Speaker 1: 11:19

It does and they don't understand. Like out of school, you don't need 15 bullies, one bully it makes school terrible for everybody. One person can do that. So, yes, I agree with you and I think today, because we have so much turnover out there, there is so much fear People are keeping employees that are not working at those values, are not working with the right intentions and motives, because these companies are so desperate for employees that I do think if you have one person who is a real power person and bullying or negative, if you do have that person removed because they are just not going to go along with the values and standards, it is amazing the performance that will come out of the team after those behaviors have been removed.

Speaker 2: 12:08

Getting the manager that confidence and to address it and just move on from that. Also see, a lot of time managers spend a lot of time on those low performers or those that aren't coming along with those values, and what happens is those that are really on board aren't you know, they're not in the shuffle, they don't have the focus of the manager and then they stop working or maybe less motivated to do the job.

Speaker 1: 12:35

Everything has an effect on one another, but yes, that's a good point, Because I am all for spending the time training. If low performers want to learn and they're just lacking some skills or experience, give them the training send them to extra training, I'm all for it. I don't want to give up on people. They're putting in effort and trying, but you cannot do that at the expense of the other ones. Correct, and that's why management is tough, because you are dividing yourself into how many pieces.

Speaker 1: 13:04

Yes absolutely, yes, really. High performers or skilled people don't need the micromanaging. They don't need you checking on all their tasks, but they still want your attention. Do you ever go to any of the higher performing, more experienced, skilled people and have them mentor some of the ones that were having a harder time?

Speaker 2: 13:25

Yes, we do that all the time in nursing, which is great. We have charge nurses, we have leads and then we have preceptors. Okay good, so it's finding those people who have the right focus and the right patience and passion and all that kind of stuff. But I would go to them and lead on them. I had a couple meetings with our charge nurses, just to empower them, to tell them that you make a difference. You are there every shift, working with your team members. You can support them and you can have that difficult conversation if they're not doing your performing the way they should. Just empowering them. But, yes, finding those right people. So it's not on the manager to have every single conversation, every single time, because you can't keep up with that. And then what happens?

Speaker 1: 14:11

no conversations are taking place.

Speaker 2: 14:14

So you really have to find those key performers or those who are passionate and really develop and empower them to help you. Because it is a team, you have to have that team approach and how did they receive that from you?

Speaker 1: 14:28

Because that's not technically their job. They're getting paid the same as they would, whether they do that or not.

Speaker 2: 14:33

Right. So I've always been very upfront and honest and when I was in the director role it was a little different than when I was the middle manager, but before anybody got that role or title, we laid out the expectations. My expectation in that role was you were the leader for the shift, so you were in charge of the operations and the people at the same time. Yes, I was right there supporting them, but I wanted them to feel that empowerment, that they can have those conversations and build those relationships because, honestly, the employees looked up to them more than they did myself because they were there every single minute of the day working with them.

Speaker 1: 15:14

But it was just laying out that expectation, did they believe that if they did that role and they did that well, showing that those leadership qualities and skills, could that be opening the doors for them for some other position down the road?

Speaker 2: 15:26

Yes, and I think a lot of people think that there's not a lot of people that want to be that motivator or that person who inspires or empowers. But there are. You just have to find them and you have to have those conversations. Early on, when I hired them, I had that conversation with them because I wanted to know those who wanted that development and I could keep pushing to be what they wanted to be and I relied on them and we met frequently. We had frequent conversations about that.

Speaker 2: 15:56

But I remember that one meeting I had with the charge nurses you could tell in the room, you could tell the ones and I was a director at this time, so I was not their direct manager but I could feel our culture shifting because a lot of our charge nurses were just saying, oh, the manager is going to handle that and my managers were drowning, they could not keep up with all of that. But I could see the room and I could tell the ones who were truly invested in it and then I could tell the ones who were like, oh no, this is just not for me anymore, but it was just having a frank conversation with them and I did some coaching and development in this meeting and we talked about trust.

Speaker 2: 16:32

That was the big topic. Yes, of course it was, and we just worked through that and then, just following up with them, I gave them just some takeaway items. I want you to have this type of conversation in the next month, or pull someone aside, and then I would follow up and say, ok, how to go? And they're like oh, it was easier than I thought. Yes, you can do this, ashley you're so good at this.

Speaker 1: 16:53

This is so fun for me because I'm always in the teaching mode and the coaching mode and the training mode. So to be with you and you get it and you're so excited about it all is a really exciting. When you go into a new organization, it is hard for them to wrap their head around empowering people to do more than what their job is. They have so much fear, they're scared to give away too many tasks or delegate too much, and then they're redundant. They're not needed anymore. Maybe there's going to be mistakes made and they'll be held accountable because they just leave that task to somebody else. So all these fears wrapped up in empowerment and giving people the chance to try something they haven't tried before, to be able to sit with a roomful of people and say we're going to do this different. It's not your job, my job, it's a team. Everybody can have these conversations together. That's huge. And had they experienced that before? You did that.

Speaker 2: 17:49

No, took a lot of preparation. I was trying to change the culture of that position. It was just great because the feedback was positive for the most part and I could tell a difference. They weren't so scared Like, oh, can I tell her that she's not doing it? Yes, yes, have that conversation. But I also a part of me felt bad because they haven't had any development on how to talk to people. They don't know how to handle difficult conversations. So, yes, I was saying that to them, but they still needed more training and development. Who maybe feel more comfortable with how to handle different situations?

Speaker 1: 18:29

So did you do communication trainings with them, or workshops?

Speaker 2: 18:32

We did Our director team and then my boss. We got together and we actually met with our leadership and development trainer at the hospital and we came up with a syllabus of the topics they need to develop or they've never even heard of, and it was an eight-leaf series. Directors were not in the meeting and the managers weren't in the meeting, so we did it for our leads, or assistant nurse managers, or charge nurses, that's what we call them and then we also did a series for our managers. That was great to just fill that gap and just have someone neutral.

Speaker 1: 19:04

That's why I've been hired so much from companies, because they have people that could lead those workshops. But having that outside person has been really helpful to them because they know there's no ulterior Well, there's no bias. It's interesting, though, because what I've seen over and over again is I'll get a team together, so their whole team and managers in a room, and it's a little bit like pulling teeth when you're asking questions and things we could work on. No, everything's good. And then I get one-on-one meetings. It's not so good. Now we have a whole bunch of stuff coming, so it is building that trust where we would know how to have some of these conversations as a team and doing it in a way that was kind and beneficial to the organization, not personal. Those are skills. I'm not scared of hard conversations. I don't like conflict, but I'm not afraid. If I have to be in conflict, I know how to manage my way through that. So to help people not have so much fear around conflict, it makes a big difference.

Speaker 1: 20:04

I remember one team. There was one lady and she was really, really good at her job, but super quiet and very afraid of saying anything that could hurt somebody's feelings. She had a lot of insight she could give and she had a lot of input she was not giving. So she would tell me one-on-one. I see this and I think if they did this it would be better. Or I see the other manager over there and I've been here longer and I watch what she's doing and I know it could be done more efficiently. But she wasn't telling her any of this. It took us months of work where she could feel confident enough to share what she was really thinking and give an honest opinion, not just a what they want to hear. She wasn't honoring her own experience and what she could bring to the table. She didn't feel like that was her place. But if we're a team, it's all of our place. So do you remember a time when you've been mentoring or training somebody and they really didn't believe in their skills? But you believed in them?

Speaker 2: 21:02

Yes, within my 10 years of being a leader, I developed six new managers and I love that. I love that. And a lot of them didn't have that confidence I would say probably half and it was just having those conversations or even just having them sitting. My type of conversations I was having with people just to hear different ways on how to respond or maybe operationally do things, or something like that. It really made a big difference. You know, once I have a team, I just wrap my arms around them and they don't want to like this.

Speaker 2: 21:37

As a nursing leader, there are so many responsibilities I mean the rules, the regulation it's just, it's a lot for someone to handle. You can't throw them all in that as once. So the first one, I did that and I just it just wasn't successful. So the the last couple, I just did step. So they didn't get all the responsibility as a manager in the beginning for quite some time. And if there was no manager that was also training them, I took that on as their leader. But I just spelled it out and just said, okay, week one or month one, this is what I really want you to focus on. And if it was your people, let's talk about how we're going to do that. Are you having your weekly meetings? Are you having these conversations? Or this situation arrived, okay, let's talk about before you who dress it. How are you going to address it, that type of thing, instead of just throwing them out there, just giving them those stepping stones to feel confident, and just put all those pieces together because it is just, it's a lot.

Speaker 1: 22:36

So how often were you having conversations with these managers that you were training?

Speaker 2: 22:41

So when they were in their orientation period which again could be up to three or four months, it was weekly I had formal weekly meetings, but I touched base with them every single day, just because there's so many things thrown at them and it's not just, it's not even the people part, it's oh my gosh, this safety event happened, how do I address it? Or this equipment broke, who do I call? How do I get it replaced? Just those types of things too, just being air for them. And I told them if you have to text me 50 times a day, text me, it's fine. I want you to feel comfortable with how you need to respond to that situation.

Speaker 1: 23:16

Yeah, you wanted them to succeed. Yes, and people will say, if you're checking on them that much or having these conversations, that's micromanagement. I do not agree with that, and I'm watching your head. You're nodding, nodding, nodding.

Speaker 2: 23:29

Yeah, my conversations were never did you do this or did you make sure you did this. It was okay. Let's talk about what happened today. What are you struggling with? What was a win? What do you feel good about? The focus was on them. It was more time for them to have the conversation with me instead of me just saying, okay, you need to make sure you do A, b and C this week.

Speaker 1: 23:52

It never was that type of way. And there's the difference actually, because it was actual conversations. Yes, yes, sitting with somebody twice a year for a review or quarterly is not the same as building a relationship with them and they know they can call and ask a question if they have one. They know that you're going to back them up if they need help. So that ongoing dialogue to me is well, it's a big part of my training. It's not a checkup, making sure they're doing their job, it's a check in to see how they're doing Correct, just touching base with them.

Speaker 1: 24:27

I know with one company I was working with VP. He said there's a lot I can't get to in a day because I'm constantly putting out fires and it's always me putting out those fires and I remember saying to him when you empower other people to learn how to put out those fires, you will be able to focus your time on the high level things, those big priorities. So it's great that you're there for your people and you're helping them put out those fires. But my suggestion always is after the fires out, use that as a case study with your team and say here's exactly what I did when this happened. They gain that experience and every time that happens, you've got more than just you that knows how to do it again. That's ongoing dialogue.

Speaker 2: 25:07

Right, and that's how you see. How do they respond? Are they reserved with this type of situation? They feel more comfortable with this. That's how you start to learn their strengths and weaknesses so you can just build upon. That has to be a part of every day or every week conversation, because you have to know your people, you have to get to know them.

Speaker 1: 25:28

Isn't that interesting, but do you think everybody gets that? No, oh no.

Speaker 2: 25:33

Karen, I think the biggest, I think, frustration I see with organizations in business is they put so many other things in the center which could be. You know, in healthcare it's the patient Absolutely. But the people taking care of them need to be right with them. And if it's not communicated from the top down as leaders, if I'm coming in that role and all I hear is results, results, results, outcomes, outcomes, outcomes, and not investing in your people, then I'm not going to do that as a leader and I'm not going to invest that time in my team. Because, one, maybe I didn't know that was what you needed to do if you're a new leader, but two, there's no emphasis on that. When you say your people, it's learning them. Someone else has a great quality of doing something. Put them on that special project or task or patient, whatever it may be, and then, if other person has another quality, put them over here. It's just taking the time to do that and a lot of people don't carve out that time in their day or week to do that.

Speaker 1: 26:33

I'm agreeing with everything you're saying Observing and watching how people are their interactions. I mean, I've been doing this a long time. I can tell when something's up with people. I can feel it, I can see it. So if you're not spending the time observing, getting to know your people, how are you leading?

Speaker 2: 26:50

them In nursing. Yes, I'm a nurse, but there are areas in nursing where it was not my experience whatsoever. I even had a huge radiology department which I didn't know radiology at all, but I I literally for six months all I did was watch and I just observed and I just asked questions and I learned their personalities and I would hear through my manager okay, so this person's strong at this, this person's strong like this, but I'm trying to tackle this and that way I could give them better advice, knowing the ins and outs of their department. But I did that by listening and just observing.

Speaker 2: 27:25

You learn so much.

Speaker 1: 27:26

Yes, you see how people handle press, what their outlook is in life. Just listening to things that they say, you're like, oh, that's a really positive person or that's a really compassionate, empathetic person, and I think leaders, with managers especially, need to be watching those things and then going and pointing that out. So, you know, I just saw how kind you were, or even telling a team member like I just saw what you did for your coworker you didn't even know I was watching. I just want you to know I noticed that it was really nice if you needed that or he needed that today. You vocalizing that to somebody goes miles with them.

Speaker 2: 28:01

Just to tell my managers all the time tell me the good things. You know who did something well, so you know they would tell me that so and so found something on a scan the other day. Really and really calm that patient down. Well then next time I was rounding and saw that I'd be like hey, I heard what. The amazing thing you did also shows that my managers and I have a strong relationship and we communicate well.

Speaker 1: 28:23

And it told that person that their manager cares about them, because they went to you and told them now their trust level goes up even more. It takes a long time to build relationship, but we can't do this job without that. I don't know how much more I can say that over and over again that you need to build relationships.

Speaker 2: 28:42

And nursing, and I'm sure it's like this everywhere. You know, my focus, yes, was on the people and to support them, but also fixing those broken processes so they could be successful, which was supporting them in a different way, and I feel like my success was great because I listened to them. You know, I would say, okay, this happened, what went on, what was the gaps? Truly listening to them in all aspects is just so important.

Speaker 1: 29:08

They really are, and I think what happens that gets lost, because when managers don't have the mindset that you have, then they think that's a bunch of complaining. And there are people and you can go on mine videos and just read the comments where it is this generation soft. Everybody needs to just pull up their socks and do their job and you don't need compliments. You need to just do your job, get your paycheck and shut up. Who wants to work like that? Every time I get those, I'm like. This is exactly why I do what I do. Thank you, yep.

Speaker 2: 29:37

I got a comment today and I was like, oh my gosh, it just blows my mind. I'm like, oh, and you're a leader. The people part is just at the bottom. So focus on accomplishing tasks, maybe, and just doing the day to day work.

Speaker 1: 29:49

They don't get it, they don't Just go talk with them. Have a conversation. And if you're hearing complaints, are you actually listening to what those are? Find out what the complaints are and start addressing them as soon as we start looking for solutions. If you're a chronic complainer, you're not really looking for a solution, right. So it wins both ways, because if we start to realize, oh, my manager's not into like a lot of complaining if my complaint's going to ask me for what I'm doing for a solution, right, and they don't complain as much.

Speaker 2: 30:19

It's a win and that's what I did If I fell, especially in the beginning. When you're a new leader, people want to come up to you and tell them how they think or what didn't work before and what they want to see. So you know, if you feel like that's just getting out of control, that's what I would say. Okay, what's your solution? What do you think we could do to make it better? Well, I want you to think about it and come back to me, because, of course, yes, I have my own ideas, but you guys are the ones physically doing the work all the time. I want to hear it from you.

Speaker 2: 30:44

I remember when I was a middle manager, there was a safety event with one of my new nurses and she had no confidence whatsoever and this really threw her over the loop and I was just like, oh my gosh, how's she going to handle this? She came in my office that next day with five ways she has learned and would have done it better, and I just was mind blown and I was just screaming and yelling. I'm like, I'm just so proud of you.

Speaker 1: 31:10

Like, look at you growing DM would you have known that, you would not have guessed that.

Speaker 2: 31:14

No so, and she felt empowered and you could just see her confidence take off from there, and just small interactions just like that could just make a huge difference. When I was pondering the decision of leaving my current position. I hung in there for years because my team was so young and I could not move on until I felt confident that they had the skills to be self sufficient.

Speaker 1: 31:38

And they are, and they're thriving. I'm glad you just said that, so they're doing great after you're doing well.

Speaker 2: 31:43

I still keep in touch with them. I still mentor them ways now because they are, they're my family and they are the reason why I was there. It wasn't because I built this program or whatever. It wasn't my team and I loved being in that director role because I loved that developing that manager.

Speaker 1: 32:02

And if we had more people like you, leading people, our workforce would be different. People want to feel like they matter and they want to feel like they belong. This isn't complicated. Having friendships at work is what we want. We're there for how many hours Nurses are there?

Speaker 2: 32:19

12 hours, yes, Right, no one wants to work in a hostile home environment. Why don't people get this?

Speaker 1: 32:26

I know, would you ever come back and do this again, because I feel like we have like a million topics. Absolutely Okay, I would love to have you back. This collaboration to me is just so fun because when we're around like-minded people, I feel like that energy can really impact a lot of people. I enjoyed this.

Speaker 2: 32:43

Thank you Again. Thank you so much for the support. It means so much, karen oh gosh, you're welcome.

Speaker 1: 32:48

Your love for people comes through. All right, ashley, we're going to do this again. Okay, thank you so much, karen. Oh, gosh, you're welcome. Thanks for being who you are out there.